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The Silent F
modern lit
[info]yuki_onna
So there's the whole kerfuffle going on about whether or not the Science Fiction Poetry Association is, or ought to be, inclusive of fantasy poetry. Mainly because, in response to a review of Star*Line over at [info]seajules, someone suggested that, respectfully, SCIENCE FICTION RULES, FANTASY DROOLS, which brought up memories of the suggested name change years ago to the Speculative Poetry Association or the Science Fiction and Fantasy Association, and to which the collective response was: LOLZNO.

[info]upstart_crow,[info]tithenai,[info]time_shark, the usual suspects, all have good posts on it. [info]rose_lemberg  has a roundup.

I'm not here to write a thoughtful post explaining why a little fucking respect for other sub-genres might behoove all of us within the non-realist community, or that the Rhyslings have been dominated by fantasy poetry for years, or even that maybe, just maybe, everyone should focus on writing poetry that doesn't embarass itself and stop arguing about terminology. Though I usually refrain from even discussing things that are already drama storms, I'm rolling up my sleeves--I aim to make trouble on the internet.

Because you know what? I'm fucking sick of it.

I'm sick of being looked down on by science fiction authors for one damn reason or another, the endless accusations from the SF camp that fantasy isn't as rigorous, or Important to the Intellectual Development of the Species, or h4rdc0r3, or whatever it is they hate about fantasy this week. Once, at a convention, another author turned to me on a panel and told me that my entire genre was just "kowtowing to Daddy Tolkien." The rest of the panel laughed and nodded agreement. After making some generally rude remarks about Daddy Heinlein and Daddy Asimov, I actually went to check the convention booklet to make sure it was a Science Fiction and Fantasy convention, because I had never felt so unwelcome as a fantasy author.

Because the simple fact is? I cannot think of a single instance where fantasy authors en masse have risen up and demanded that the "S" be removed from SFWA or SFPA or any other organization claiming to represent all of us.

And yet every so often someone has to barge in and tell all of us fantasy writers to GTFO, so they can have their rocket club without us.

Good grief, why? Who cares? Is SF such a delicate flower that it will bear no other genres before it? Where is the threat here? Why must an entire group of writers be expelled in order to keep an acronym sacred?

I'm sick to death of being the silent F in SF, of being told that what I do is somehow on the face of it less rigorous and deserving of serious thought (the academic attention debate always seems to come back to science fiction, since, you know, Tolkien is the whole of fantasy and he gets plenty of academic love) than slimy alien fic. I've talked before about what I think are the underpinnings of this atrocious prejudice, but at this point, the point of yet another dude telling the fantasy writers in his midst to leave, I don't even want to dignify it with re-stating analytical arguments. It's clubhouse behavior, that's all. It has nothing to do with keeping the SFPA pure and free of icky, girly fantasy.

This doesn't even get into the insidious and intellectually dishonest implications in the old saws about how SF is about the future and fantasy is about the past, or the terminology we use--hard and soft--to describe each...or, even, how gendered this whole discussion is, with men trumpeting a rocket-shaped horn and laughing behind their hands at us girls and our silly fairy tales. Nevermind that both genders write both genres, somehow these conversations always seem to fall uncomfortably into a formula of a male SF author rudely calling out fantasy authors, and female fantasy authors trying to respond calmly and logically, explaining the virtues of accepting them into the club they had foolishly thought welcomed them, while not being listened to in the least, and receiving rudeness their male brethren simply do not in return for their peacemaking efforts.

Well, you know what? I am many things, but a gentle peacemaker I am not. At times like this, I'm pretty sure the F in SF stands for "fuck you."

Fantasy is an amazing genre. It contains some of the greatest literature written in the history of the world. It embraces possibility and strangeness and passion and magic--and sometimes there's even science in there. Rigorous science, even. It's as hard as you want it to be. I am a fantasy writer and a fantasy poet and I will go to the mat for my genre.

It's not even controversial to point out that fantasy as a genre right now is dynamic, growing, innovative, and bustling. Current SF? A bit anemic, a bit derivative, with a few stellar books here and there. So much so that all Neal Stephenson has to do is cough and he is assured of a place on the Hugo ballot. (Shit, I feel bad just typing that. I don't want SF to be a dwindling genre with a dwindling and increasingly curmudgeonly audience. I love SF. But of course in screeds against fantasy no one feels the need to say they love fantasy, no, really, some of their best friends are fantasists. So why do I feel guilty pointing out that this is not exactly the Golden Age?)

But it's all about labels, right? SF Clubhouse. Fantasists Keep Out.

The fact is, fantasy is by far the more inclusive term. It could easily be argued that science fiction is an exclusionary term while fantasy is inclusive. All science fiction is fantasy, not all fantasy is science fiction. And yet we never go around screaming that SF authors should go soak it, mainly because that is dick behavior, and doesn't do anybody any good.

I mean, it sounds ridiculous to even say it, right? I hereby move that the SFWA and SFPA be changed to the FWA and FPA in order to welcome all non-realist writers under their umbrellas.

Why, it's like calling it herstory instead of history, or something!

And yet, that makes a hell of a lot more sense than kicking out anyone who doesn't have enough ray guns or alien cats in their work. But it doesn't even get brought up at meetings, because the SF guys would have a collective coronary. But we fantasy writers, we just take it and take it and don't even ask for that silent F to be pronounced. Nobody is afraid of pissing off the fantasy contingent.

Well, I'm pissed off. I'm, dare I say, mad as hell, and not taking it anymore. Fantasy is here to stay. It's only the oldest kind of literature for fuck's sake. So pull up your big boy pants, learn to play nice with others, and in the words of the post that started all of this, get over it.


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I've never understood the sf vs. fantasy thing. They go better together!

Me neither, but it bugs the shit out of me that the only animosity I ever see is SF crapping on fantasy. W.T.F.

that maybe, just maybe, everyone should focus on writing poetry that doesn't embarass itself

NEVAR!!!!

That would involve, you know, reading other people's poetry.

Yes.

I so loooooooooooooove this post.

(Especially as someone who, with my aerospace engineering education, is constantly being told that since I am "smart enough" to write science fiction I toooootally should. Well, um, sorry, but I prefer dragons to circuits. I always have and I always will, and that really wouldn't be a problem if the people who preferred circuits would stop putting down my fire-breathing friends.)

And this is exactly why I hate putting things in genres! I'm pretty sure if I had my way bookshelves would be all mashed together, with Bridget Jones's Diary right next to a Klingon phrasebook right next to Angela Carter. So there. ;)

Why does no one tell the SF writer: "Hey, you're smart enough to write fantasy, you know. If you wanted to. You should try it, see what happens."

*adores with some violence*

Just to clarify, the discussion about the name began in a review of the lastest issue of Star*Line on [info]seajules's LJ, and [info]sa_kelly's comment was a reaction to that.

For anyone interested in the evolving debate, [info] has an ongoing summary at [info]spec_poetry.

Would you like me to edit the entry to reflect that? It's only half about the current kerfuffle...

Older yet.

I can't imagine what I'd have said if someone opined that fantasy is kowtowing to Tolkien. Whenever I begin to participate on panels, my aim would be to not cuss out my fellow panellists.

I deeply dislike stupidity and genre elitism, as if taxonomy, a sticky label applied to a story, is something worth paying much attention to anyway.

In fairness to the author, he was 19, and full of his own awesome as a real live SF author. the rest of the panel agreeing...I have no idea.

As a fantasy fan whose father is an SF writer (and a "hard" SF writer at that, who bristles at being lumped in with fantasy) I can understand both sides of the debate, but I absolutely agree with you as far as the tone, one-sidedness, and sheer idiocy of the animosity.

I can't help but be reminded of the gay community trying to keep out the bisexuals or trans people.

Hmmm, maybe we need to deny SF/Fantasy authors the right to marry... That might help bond them together through prejudicial adversity, like it did for the Queer community! (I am being facetious here. Clearly shared adversity has done nothing to band SF writers together.)

...Which leads me to the thought that GLBT appropriated for themselves an umbrella term, Queer, which does not imply any deeper mutual characteristics other than "alternate sexuality than the monogamous heterosexual norm," and perhaps such a shift could be useful here as well. I see nothing wrong with speculative fiction (apart from its abbreviation being SF), and I think that some similar higher-level genre could be quite serviceable.

(I personally agree with the definition of science fiction as a form of fantasy, it's pretty clear that a lot of SF writers do not, and so in the spirit of compromise and progress, couldn't that argument be put to one side, and we instead opt for the addition of one more branch of hierarchy that encompasses both on an equal footing as individual non-beholden subgenres of a larger class?)

I tend to prefer SF to fantasy...but it's a tendency, not a requirement. There's plenty of fantasy on my shelf as well, and a good bit of it better than a lot of the SF.

There's a reason NESFA Press reprinted Silverlock (which, IIRC, includes quite a bit of poetry).

For that matter, one of the best stories in an SF anthology I just read was by a predominantly-fantasy author...what was her name again...says here "Catherynne M. Valente". Any relation?

I try to use more inclusive terms when possible; I usually use "speculative fiction" (or "specfic") as a general SF/F/H/MR/WTF/BBQ term which has the often convenient feature of also fitting well into existing acronyms.

(Personally, after reading some of those discussion threads...I'm wondering what S— K—'s GRE scores are.)

Hell yeah.
I move that SFWA be renamed "Speculative Fiction Writers of America." And then rename itself "Speculative Fiction Writers of the World" and open itself up to our esteemed brethren everywhere. Or something else more broad-minded.

Because SF and F are twin children and how the heck can we have one without the other?

I wish I had more of a voice... but I'm not even an Active member of SFWA; ten years of writing reviews, reading slush, and even my new gig as an editor don't mean as much as selling three stories to SFWA-qualifying markets, or a book. (For the record: 5 sales. 3 to non-qualifying markets, 1 to a qualifying, 1 reprint.)

An editor I worked with used to say SFWA stood for "So Fucking What, Asshole?" and there are a lot of days when I have to agree. But I digress. I agree that we need to respect both aspects of the genre equally.

Sigh. Grrr. Argh.

Word.

Wish I could say more, but that really sums it all up.

Yeah. I kind of just prefer "speculative fiction" as a descriptor, though I understand that annoys people, too.

Just read your story in the from the troll's point of view anthology, and enjoyed the imagery quite a bit.

What horrendous thoughtless behavior. It makes men nearly ashamed to read science fiction if the creators of it are so narrow-minded. Also, I agree with you science fiction is fantasy because as far I know, we haven't colonized the moon or Mars yet, or learned to travel in inner space to other dimensions. Maybe they need to change their name to Predictive or Speculative fiction already. They feel superior because they're grounded in reality and fantasy writers are not. Ask Stephen Hawking how close we are to space travel beyond our galaxy or finding life (we can communicate with) on other planets.

Not to mention all of the psi stuff in stories read by people who turn their noses up at books with "magic" in them.

As the treasurer of the Mythopoeic Society, well, you know how I must feel about fantasy. :)
That said, I cut my reading teeth on Asimov and Bradbury. The Hard and Soft of SF. And read Tolkien 4 years later. Frankly, I've always melded the two genres, just like the bookstore and the library do. And with Good Reason, the Two are Twins and a type of fiction that make them special snowflakes in the Fiction aisle. It's a shame one twin keeps wanting to disown it's partner. It would pale if that were to happen.
And I prefer BOTH at my SF&F conventions.
And don't even complain when SF shows up at Mythcon. The discussions we've had about Star Trek, Star Wars, and Babylon 5.
Keep Reminding / Bashing them about the head and shoulders, until they understand.
Cross Fandom and Fantasy Fandom are here to stay.
Keep writing whatever you want, we'll keep reading.

Clap, clap, f'in clap.

Here, take my raygun* and my combat boots and go forth and make it right.

SF = speculative fiction, as far as I'm concerned. It's not that Fantasy is the silent F. There was only one F to begin with.

*Careful with the raygun, though, one of those steampunk types got a hold of it last summer and now you have to *wind* the thing.

Huh. I must be in a strange bubble place, because I've never seen or experienced such an attitude towards fantasy. Or maybe it's simply because most of the people I know are either fantasy authors themselves in some way, or so completely removed from the fantasy/science fiction world they just sort of smile and nod when I talk about what I write.

Now, in grad school, as I worked towards a Masters in English with a concentration in folklore (didn't finish, long story, mebbe I'll tell if you ask later), I became friendly with one of the other English grad students I shared some classes with, despite her concentration being Creative Writing. She told me how the whole of the English faculty basically had to go behind the back of the guy considered the university's creative writing go-to professor in order to accept her into the program... because this one professor hates science fiction and fantasy both. And mystery. Basically, genre fiction as opposed to "literary" fiction. This man would have denied my friend a place in the Creative Writing program simply because she chose to write fantasy, but also would have if her writing of choice was science fiction, or mystery, or romance, or whatever else if it didn't fall in to his idea of "literary."

That is the only instance I've ever known of genre prejudice, and it was prejudice against any genre.

However... that said, I totally agree with this post, and with you, and think you should go kick some ass. I'm behind you!

Consider yourself lucky.

That genre prejudice is pretty widespread--which is why I hate that even within the marginalized genre, we have to have these little talks.

I was also rejected form several MFA programs due to being a fantasy writer, so, you know, solidarity.

Well done. Well said.

I'd suggest sending this to Caitlin R. Kiernan ([info]greygirlbeast). I think she'd appreciate it.

Edited at 2009-07-28 12:37 am (UTC)

Awesome. I'm DYING to read her new book.

Nice post--and here's to "icky, girly fantasy!"

Boo-fucking-ya, girl! You said it!!!

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The thing is, fantasy and horror have always been part of it, and for those of us who write that to be told that despite winning the awards of the organizaiton and being published in its journal, we should just get over the fact that we aren't welcome is really insulting. Some of the off-LJ comments have gone way beyond SF rules/F drools as well.

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I am full of agreement.

Also, most libraries and bookstores have twice the amount of Fantasy books as they do Sci-Fi... and at least twice the amount of readers, too.

It's not secret that fantasy far outsells SF and is more popular--however, I didn't want to bring that up, as poetry doesn't sell all that much anyway.

You are HAWT when you're mad! Preach it, sister!

Hilarious because we book publishing folks tend to see every spec fiction sub-genre - even hard SF - as a sub-genre of Fantasy.


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