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Rules for Anchorites

Letters from Proxima Thule

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It's About Power
monsters
[info]yuki_onna
I have struggled for several days over whether I ought to say anything about the Prime Books conversation going on in various interweb-type places.

You all know I've worked with Prime. But how much of an author's relationship with a publisher--especially one she no longer publishes with--is fodder for public discourse? I don't know. I still don't know. But I don't want my silence to be conspicuous.

I have had positive experience with Prime (The Labyrinth, Yume no Hon) and negative experiences (pretty much everything else). Some of these were interpersonal issues that I do not feel comfortable getting into here, and that has been an incredibly hard decision. If you absolutely need to know, discuss it with me privately. I just can't bring myself to hash it out online. Some of the problems were professional issues (the fate of my poetry collections and my third novel). I published with Prime before anyone was getting advances, and while it often took forever and a year and a lot of upset emails, I did eventually get paid for everything I did for them. I know a lot of people who weren't so lucky--and the likelihood is you do too.

The fact is that most people in the community knew all of this about Prime a long time ago, and have been unwilling to burn bridges by speaking out. It's true that at any con where Prime is named, authors, mainly female ones, roll their eyes and share their grievances for hours on end. Because guess what? It's not enough to publish women. You have to value their work, and valuing their work means paying them and respecting them. So kudos to a very brave Michael Cisco, who was mad as hell and not going to take it anymore. That's what the internet is for, in a lot of ways. Balancing power.

We all want to work--it makes it hard to talk about any company in negative ways. That said.

Sean Wallace is the reason I am currently published by Bantam--he kindly sent the manuscript for The Orphan's Tales up when I submitted it to him. He regularly offers me work. He has been much less...abrasive/invasive in recent years. I owe him a lot.

On the other hand, none of my books received professional editing or copyediting, and the publicity was certainly in my hands, beyond sending out ARCs. But guys, that's every publisher, and I've always told y'all that. Prime is perhaps worse than most at the practice of slapping on a cover and hoping for the best, but it is a small press. On the third hand, The Grass-Cutting Sword was more or less abandoned before it ever came out, despite Sean specifically asking me to write it, and that was a hard pill for me to swallow. The details on that are another thing I think would cause more trouble than good were I to share them all. I'm not all that gossipy on the internet. On the fourth hand, I've heard through various channels a lot of gossip that the editor of Prime has engaged in behind my back, which has on occasion harmed my relationships with other female authors, and I'm not happy with that kind of high-school mentality. It's a small community, shit gets around, and it has hurt to hear the things I've heard. But I cannot control another person's behavior.

Here's the thing. If you don't like the way a publisher works, don't work for them. Don't be so desperate for publication that you will put up with anything. None of us are cattle, we don't deserve to be prodded and shocked and ultimately whacked on the head. You get treated the way you allow yourself to be treated. Prime is not the only publisher in the world, and if you don't like it, quit. Publication in and of itself is not worth the misery of working with people you do not believe are dealing with you ethically, fairly, professionally, or whathaveyou. The reason publishers--and there are many worse than Prime--get away with shit is because we are all so desperate we don't call them out.

My Labyrinth novel contract before I signed with Prime, my first one, with a realist small press in San Diego, turned out to be predicated upon sleeping with the editor. Guess what? Publication wasn't worth it. They are not the only ones with power.

Don't forget that you as the author do control the means of production, and you have the ability to take your work elsewhere. Prime doesn't pay so much or provide so much high profile publicity that you need to stick around like it's a company town and you spent your last dime on moldy bread.

This goes for any publisher: they are not the only game in town, and if you don't like the way the game is being played, take your ball and go find another team.

Ultimately, that's what I did.

Yep, I may be a photographer (and my hubby leemoyer an illustrator www.leemoyer.com), but we feel much the same way. Desperation and operating from a scarcity mentality is bad for the individual and bad for everyone in the industry. There is way to much of it, and it is self perpetuating. It is hard to tell someone to go get stuffed when that ugly little voice in your head is shouting, "No one else will ever want your work again!!!!", but as real professionals, we have to do it.

Thank you for speaking-- I am grateful to everyone who's given their perspective on what a working relationship with this publisher is like so that I can make a well-informed decision about submitting to this market in the future.

Very well and fairly said, I think. You are good at that.

When I saw "The Orphan's Tales," I knew that title sounded familiar to me. So I Googled it and, lo and behold, I saw the cover of In the Night Garden and clearly remembered reading it and thinking, very seriously, that it was one of the best--if not the best--fantasy novel I'd read in many, many years.

And I'm not just fannishly squeeing or blowing smoke up your ass here. I'm a writer, too, and I've read an awful lot of completely craptastic fantasy novels. In fact, one such horrific, poorly edited, clunky, predictably plotted, wooden-charactered novel was what gave me the cosmic head-thwack I needed to pursue becoming a writer in the first place.

I'm glad to know who you are now--don't worry, I promise I won't stalk you. :-)

I'm glad you liked it--it means a lot to me to hear that.

Hear hear. The other thing you have to remember is "Just because he made the overture doesn't mean you have to blow him." In my experience with Prime, he contacted me about the two collections that I ultimately had to pull from him, and then promptly stopped returning repeated messages until I finally had to threaten physical violence and/or public humiliation. I've said it before and I'll say it again: if I wanted to respond to an enthusiastic request for submission, wait 2 1/2 years to see so much as a proof, receive no feedback whatsoever about whether or not the manuscript was acceptable, hear repeated lies about release dates to prevent me from getting more vocal about editorial incompetence, and then hear back from mutual acquaintances about how "it wasn't really that good", I'd write another guest script for Randy Milholland.

You're also right about the problem that we let vermin like Wallace get away with this. We've always let bad publishers get away with this, and every time someone tries to warn us that a publisher is unethical or blatantly lawbreaking, any number of us go running, like teenage girls to a serial killer, on the idea that "well, he won't do that to me." In Prime's case, nobody called him on his tactics when he practically signed up half of Australia on contracts that he simply couldn't handle. Nobody called him when he dropped everything to edit both Clarkesworld and Fantasy. Nobody called him when he spent more time preening for convention photos and pitching his Fantasy featurette on "Hot Genre Editors I'd Like To Pork" than on fulfilling his contractual obligations. Most of all, he continues with his "Well, at least I'm trying" non-apology apologies, and yet he continues to be treated as if he's a respectable editor by the rest of the skiffy community. Considering how long everyone put up with Kristine Kathryn Rusch's delaying publication of Pulphouse in order to focus on other shiny objects that caught her attention that morning, as well as rationalizing her publishing her own goddamn stories in nearly every issue of F&SF while she was editor, I'm not surprised.

Me, I'm going further than just deciding that "Friends don't let friends do Prime." I realize that I wasn't much of a commodity even when I was still writing, but the next person who comes at me with anything approximating an offer for publication is getting punched in the heart. I've already sold off my remaining writing portfolio to get it the fuck out of my life, and I shut down my other blog because I was already so sick and tired of idiots telling me "I know you'd rather get sodomized by the Pope than write again, but you really need to go back to it." I'm done. (And I know some smartass will inevitably pipe up and tell me that s/he won't touch me for the latest Absolutely Fabulous/Farscape slashfic anthology s/he's putting together. All I can say is "Pleeeeeeaaaaase, Brer Fox, don't throw me in that briar patch!")

I always wondered where your collections went.

Had no idea about the Hot Genre Editors thing, but it has always troubled me that he is acknowledged as a feminist ally in public despite his well-known behavior in private.

Yeah, I pulled those back at the beginning of 2007. At the time, I figured that my books were delayed because Wallace was trying to take care of previous contracts and figured that I might as well cut both of our losses, and then I heard and collected tales about the other stunts he's pulled. I finally blew up last week, when I discovered that Fantasy, which can't even put out a print edition for a full year, is fussing about doing radio plays on its Web site.

As for the "Hot Editors" piece, he announced in 2006 that he was putting a new feature in Fantasy dedicated to new editors in the genre, including pictures. After seeing the pictures, that's when I nicknamed it as such, and that's when I realized that I was never going to see either book. He couldn't give me an honest release date, and he was pissing off people who'd come to him at Readercon and World Fantasy and ask if they could pre-order copies, but he could dedicate his time to near-cheesecake photo shoots of interns who'd never have given him the time of day if he wasn't a book and magazine publisher.

If you don't like the way a publisher works, don't work for them. Don't be so desperate for publication that you will put up with anything. None of us are cattle, we don't deserve to be prodded and shocked and ultimately whacked on the head.

Preach it. I learned this the hard way via another small press which shall go unnamed in this space. I understand the desperation to see yourself in print, but there ARE things that aren't worth tolerating. There ARE offers that cost too much to accept.

the addendum to that is of course that it's helpful for people to be open about their dealings so authors can make informed decisions. But god, it's such an important thing to know--like a relationship, sometimes you gotta respect yourself enough to leave.

Thanks for talking about this.

I heard a little of what you went through from a friend when I was struggling with my own Prime stuff, and it helped me cement the decision to get myself somewhere else.

Thank you! From one of my favorite poems.

Thanks for saying this. As an amateur writer who has only briefly considered submitting my stuff to anywhere (I don't have any whole novels finished anyway, let alone many short stories), it's good to know what to expect should I decide to do that. It is sort of nice to hear this, as I do have a sort of "OMG what if no one else wants me" mentality about things (part of being an aspiring opera singer, I think, since so much of my life is focused on auditioning), and sometimes we need to hear that it's okay to value ourselves enough to walk away when things get bad.

guess i need to echo you and say much the same about record labels. *love* well done.

Ha, I haven't even thought about that!
But that makes a lot of sense, I'm sure you get the same issues with record labels.

Kudos to you for talking about this.

Thanks for talking about this. I consider myself warned.

Mostly off topic, I'm delighted to find someone else who needs to count with four hands.

I was rather floored. That's one more than the gripping hand. Quite a talent.

I'm new to Prime (just discovered them at Readercon, and wound up buying a bunch of books, including The Labyrinth). I like their product; it's a shame they don't treat their writers better.

Enjoy 'em while they last. I suspect Prime in two years is going to be like Pulphouse Press circa 1995: a trivia answer.

Glad to read your words on this subject too, Cat! I appreciate and admire your forthrightness.

I know I've already weighed in once, but your description of what happened to you with The Grass-Cutting Sword illuminates the reason why I got so upset with him over the Mythic books, in a way I didn't articulate well in my own Prime post. Mythic was Sean's idea; he brought it up with me over and over and over again; but once it was in print, his attention zoomed elsewhere and didn't return. He forgot to order copies of Mythic 2 for World Fantasy '06 and laid the blame at my feet for "not reminding him in time." And so on. Nowadays, it's just milk spilled and cleaned up, a lesson learned, something that made me stronger and smarter. Then, it was, as you put it, a really hard pill to swallow.

Yes. I love GCS and it breaks my heart that no one, essentially, will ever read it. I also designed the cover for it, but I got no credit--the guy they hired to put a texture on the black matte got credit. On top of which he sent out almost no review copies and told me over and over that Dora Goss's book had to come first, while delaying until it could be released right before The Orphan's Tales, hoping to scalp publicity from Bantam, though he had verbally agreed to release GCS no later than six months pre OT release. The result is the book died and was remaindered. And yet, he's the one who asked me to write it, who pushed me to.

The whole situation with that book makes me sick, and it's the main reason I won't work with them again--they kill my books.

If it makes you feel any better, our public library in DeKalb has copy of GCS.

I am so sorry that you've had such a bad time at Prime. Thank you for sharing your story; I'm sure it wasn't easy.


It was remaindered?

Oh that's terrible...are there still copies out and about? I keep meaning to buy one, but I found Prime's website and catalogue a bit erm, confusing to use.

I have copies for sale, yes.

I can grab a copy Friday, since that's payday. Paypal good? Or a check?

Paypal to snowwhiteunbound@gmail.com

Ok, coolness :)

I suspect that this is deliberate.

Well, I always found it interesting that the books that showed up the most on the front of the Web site and in the search engine were all of the Sean Wallace-edited anthologies. I had several friends with books through Prime, and I couldn't find their books through the engine (mine, for that matter, although he told me at one point that they were listed on the site), I could always find that copy of Jabberwocky up front.

I grew up in LA, and this sounds so much like what the "industry" does to people. People who are so desperate to get in that they become slaves. Eventually they get burned and get out or they become willing accomplices of the system.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that the same kinds of shenanigans can happen in publishing too. Anytime you have a power relationship, there's the chance for its abuse.

Thanks for sharing the story -- the wise ones will learn from those who've walked the path before.

Well said. I think the basic point is that every one needs a bit of respect. Even authors.

I am happy to say I have a copy of The Grass-Cutting Sword; it took many months to find it, but I prevailed.

I would also like to add that your prose is resplendent.

This is wise advice to anyone regardless of industry. I'm glad you shared it.

you have the ability to take your work elsewhere.

You have the ability to take your new work elsewhere. But getting the rights to an existing work back from its publisher can be difficult or impossible.

Yes, I know that, and it is certainly the case that my first 3 books are all stuck at Prime, with no hope of paperback editions or different editions, and that is deeply depressing. I just figure I'll make more.